N/S QB Zach Wilson traded to the Broncos (3 Viewers)

[SonOfNOLA]

To a point, I agree with you.

I live in Boston and can tell you the organization did not fail Mac Jones. Mac Jones failed Mac Jones by thinking he was greater than the team. His persona on and off the field is what made him lose favoritism.

Trey Lance looks like he was a glorified combine stud. Couldn't beat out Jimmy G and Mr. Irrelevant Brock Purdy. Lance was a guy that was supposed to change the game.

Zach Wilson looks to be a spoiled rich kid that didn't get his way. His family is more highly touted than him at this point should speak volumes. If he is going to turn it around, Payton is the only person who could do it.




Jared Goff is one that comes to mind; garbage with the Rams and has recreated himself in Detroit.

Jared Goff was nowhere near garbage with the Rams. He never had a losing season in LA after his rookie year. 2x PBer, two 4600+ yard seasons, two 100+ passer rating years, 107-55 total td-int in 5 seasons, and 3 playoff apps including a SB app. He beat Mahomes in that 54-51 MNF shootout a few years ago. Goff was the main reason McVay had 4 consecutive winning seasons to begin his tenure. He did all of that before he was 27 years old.

His last season with the Rams ended with surgery for a thumb fracture which he was dealing with for some time iirc. He was still 9-6 in his last season before the surgery. He recreated himself by helping turn the Lions into a winning team, after being perceived as the very slightly-lesser QB in the Stafford trade, not because he wasn’t a good QB in LA.

Mac Jones and Zach Wilson’s personalities doesn’t change that they had terrible QB coaches and OCs who failed to develop them and didn’t put them in position to succeed coming into the league. They aren’t the first top 15 drafted QBs to be labeled as spoiled rich kids who think theyre above the team. The same was said about Eli and Philip Rivers but they had competent coaching at the beginning of their careers.

 

[RJS]

I'm not buying the narrative that young players not developing is 100% the fault of the organization that they were drafted to. At the least it's a case by case situation. Sometimes guys just don't have it.

Mike Lafleur seems to be a pretty highly regarded offensive coach. Players know what's going on around them and Jets players all sporting Mike White t-shirts a couple of years ago speaks volumes.

 

[Dallas_Saint73]

Jersey sales will be through the roof..

 

[jahsoul357]

Jared Goff was nowhere near garbage with the Rams. He never had a losing season in LA after his rookie year. 3x PBer, two 4600+ yard seasons, two 100+ passer rating years, 107-55 total td-int in 5 seasons, and 3 playoff apps including a SB app. He beat Mahomes in that 54-51 MNF shootout a few years ago. Goff was the main reason McVay had 4 consecutive winning seasons to begin his tenure. He did all of that before he was 27 years old.

His last season with the Rams ended with surgery for a thumb fracture which he was dealing with for some time iirc. He was still 9-6 in his last season before the surgery. He recreated himself by helping turn the Lions into a winning team, after being perceived as the very slightly-lesser QB in the Stafford trade, not because he wasn’t a good QB in LA.

Mac Jones and Zach Wilson’s personalities doesn’t change that they had terrible QB coaches and OCs who failed to develop them and didn’t put them in position to succeed coming into the league. They aren’t the first top 15 drafted QBs to be labeled as spoiled rich kids who think theyre above the team. The same was said about Eli and Philip Rivers but they had competent coaching at the beginning of their careers.

Truth...

The narrative around Goff was all jacked up because they believed that McVay could do no wrong. They only win 4-5 games after the Super Bowl season and started this season as one of the worst in the NFL. They killed it the 2nd half tho..lol. The Lions allowed Goff to rewrite his story but when his career is ultimately and accurately reflected on, it will look a lot different, especially when exploring the Rams.

I'm not buying the narrative that young players not developing is 100% the fault of the organization that they were drafted to. At the least it's a case by case situation. Sometimes guys just don't have it.

Mike Lafleur seems to be a pretty highly regarded offensive coach. Players know what's going on around them and Jets players all sporting Mike White t-shirts a couple of years ago speaks volumes.

I never said that it is 100% the fault of the organization but you better believe more fail because of the org. Mike Lafleur is highly regarded (because he normally followed Shanahan around) but his brother is the one that's proven, as well as seeing what he is doing with his development of Love.

And with all the love for Mike White, him, along with Joe Flacco (our reigning CPOY..lol) stunk. The Jets are not and were not a good team. That's why so much hope was put on Rodgers and basically running what he did in Green Bay.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

I'm not buying the narrative that young players not developing is 100% the fault of the organization that they were drafted to. At the least it's a case by case situation. Sometimes guys just don't have it.

Mike Lafleur seems to be a pretty highly regarded offensive coach. Players know what's going on around them and Jets players all sporting Mike White t-shirts a couple of years ago speaks volumes.

It was in Mike White’s 4th and 5th seasons when he began to look like a capable QB though. He didn’t play a game in his first 3 years. Instead of building on White’s two consecutive 315-370 yard games that he had in relief in late 2022, Jets moved on from White right after the 2022 season and didn’t re-sign him.

That continued the trend of Jets incompetency of failing to continue developing QBs. I think it’s 100%, or overwhelming majority of, the fault of the organization when the development of two capable young QBs is neglected at once, especially one who looked slightly more ready than the other. If they would’ve did everything they can to keep Mike Lafleur, Wilson or White would’ve made more progress in 2023 with OC continuity. But Saleh is on a timer to win now to keep his job and Wilson & White’s development was casted aside and washed away because of it. Jets gave up on both of them too soon because their HC isn’t good at developing QBs, or not good at making sure that they’re able to develop with the proper staff.

 

[Nonreg]

Jared Goff was nowhere near garbage with the Rams. He never had a losing season in LA after his rookie year. 2x PBer, two 4600+ yard seasons, two 100+ passer rating years, 107-55 total td-int in 5 seasons, and 3 playoff apps including a SB app. He beat Mahomes in that 54-51 MNF shootout a few years ago. Goff was the main reason McVay had 4 consecutive winning seasons to begin his tenure. He did all of that before he was 27 years old.

His last season with the Rams ended with surgery for a thumb fracture which he was dealing with for some time iirc. He was still 9-6 in his last season before the surgery. He recreated himself by helping turn the Lions into a winning team, after being perceived as the very slightly-lesser QB in the Stafford trade, not because he wasn’t a good QB in LA.

Mac Jones and Zach Wilson’s personalities doesn’t change that they had terrible QB coaches and OCs who failed to develop them and didn’t put them in position to succeed coming into the league. They aren’t the first top 15 drafted QBs to be labeled as spoiled rich kids who think theyre above the team. The same was said about Eli and Philip Rivers but they had competent coaching at the beginning of their careers.

It's easy to look at stats and make any comparison you want; fact is LA traded Goff away (plus 2 1st round + 3rd round draft picks) because they wanted a better QB who could bring them to the promise land. Jared Goff was not that person. Why draft a QB #1 overall + give up that much capital if he's doing a good job?

I think the humility of being traded; after being the #1 pick gave Jared exactly what he needed, ammunition to get better and become better.

Mac Jones and Zach Wilson are garbage and that has nothing to do with coaching. It has everything to do with them thinking they are better than they are and eating the kool-aide so to speak when coming into the league. How do you think Aaron Rodgers would of done last year or how he will do this year? Same coaches different player.

Eli Manning comes from a family of QB; not a fair assumption here.
Philip Rivers was highly regarded coming out of NC State, he also had ammunition to produce as people labelled him directly to Eli due to the trade

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

I've never never wanted a team to fail so much in my life.

 

[rail]

Jersey sales will be through the roof..

Dude's gonna have ample hunting grounds in Cherry Creek.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

It's easy to look at stats and make any comparison you want; fact is LA traded Goff away (plus 2 1st round + 3rd round draft picks) because they wanted a better QB who could bring them to the promise land. Jared Goff was not that person. Why draft a QB #1 overall + give up that much capital if he's doing a good job?

I think the humility of being traded; after being the #1 pick gave Jared exactly what he needed, ammunition to get better and become better.

Mac Jones and Zach Wilson are garbage and that has nothing to do with coaching. It has everything to do with them thinking they are better than they are and eating the kool-aide so to speak when coming into the league. How do you think Aaron Rodgers would of done last year or how he will do this year? Same coaches different player.

Eli Manning comes from a family of QB; not a fair assumption here.
Philip Rivers was highly regarded coming out of NC State, he also had ammunition to produce as people labelled him directly to Eli due to the trade

Not just stats, Rams won most of their games in Goff era on Goff’s arm. He brought them to those 11-5, 13-3, 9-7, & 9-6 seasons which included 2 division titles and a SB app.

The trade compensation looks like it reflected Goff being an injured QB coming off surgery on his throwing hand and a high INT-TD ratio season, plus a really high cap hit. Stafford had a much lower cap hit while he was at the end of his last Lions contract extension before the QB market spike. Goff and Stafford’s per game/per season averages since Goff’s first full season are very comparable.

Rams paid accordingly for an established QB who could immediately win a SB in their offensive system. I think Goff would’ve eventually won one with them since he already brought McVay to the SB 3 seasons prior in Goff’s 3rd NFL season. He was just 5 seasons into his career. Rams apparently didn’t have time to wait while Goff was coming off right thumb fracture surgery so they pulled the trigger for the healthier QB to meet their immediate goals. They’re essentially the same QB while one is more experienced. Goff bounced back once he was healthy and settled into the Lions’ offensive system.

Mac Jones had a good rookie year. Then took major steps back in his reads and release after his OC left and replaced with lesser offensive coaches who are now fired right along with Belichick. Mac Jones also never had a good WR1. Belichick always tried turning WR3s and WR4s into top WRs the entire time Jones was there. Wilson hasn’t shown as much as Jones. But hasn’t been coached by a good offensive staff for consecutive seasons either. They aren’t good QBs right now but have shown promise to eventually become decent starters with the right staff IMO.

 

[Artifactual]

On the surface I agree with the gist of what you're saying, however, as bad as the Bucs have been historically, they did get Some Juice from a Few of the QBs they Drafted. The following players had their Moments:

The following stats are based on a minimum of 25 starts for QBs Drafted by the Bucs. They have Drafted 24 QBs in their Team History.

1978 1st Round - Doug Williams - 2nd in Wins with 32, 4th Most TDs with 73, 2nd Highest All-Time Winning Percentage @ .4925%
1987 1st Round - Trent Dilfer - 1st in Wins with 38, 5th Most TDs with 70, 3rd Highest All-Times Winning Percentage @ .4810%
1999 2nd Round - Shaun King - 6th in Wins with 20, Best Int. Percentage @ 3.1%, Highest All-Time Winning Percentage @ .6452%
2003 3rd Round - Chris Simms - I Reached A Bit Here I'll Give You That.
2015 1st Round - Jameis Winston - 3rd in Wins with 28, Most TDs with 121, 3rd Best Int. Percentage @ 3.5%, Most Yards with 19,737, Most Yards Per Game @ 274.1, Highest Yards Per Attempt @ 7.7, Highest Rating @ 86.9, 5th Highest All-Time Winning Percentage @ .3889%.

I did say "Some Juice", "A Few", and "Moments". Not suggesting HOF worthy by any means.

Doug Williams - Seen as a bust for the Bucs. Got the juice in Washington and even then....smh (He was the 1st Black QB to Win a SB....smh)
Trent Dilfer - Took 4 years for him to actually do something and ended up signing with the Ravens as a backup. Now he is coaching my hometown team to a losing record...LOL
Shaun King - Eh....
Chris Simms - No...lol (Career Cut Short Due To Injury.) To your point let's substitute Josh Freeman. See Below.
Jameis - He is considered a bust and can't nobody really tell you why, other than "30 interceptions." lol

If we are looking at their time with the Bucs, Josh Freeman was probably better than 4 of the 5 that you listed. And this isn't even mentioning Steve Young...lol

I Missed on Josh Freeman.

He showed some Juice and had his Moments his first 4 years as a Buc and then was cut mid-way into his 5th season. He's tied for 4th in Wins with 24, 2nd Most TDs with 80, 2nd Most Yards Per Game @ 225.6, 2nd Best Int. Percentage @ 3.4%, 4th Highest All-Time Winning Percentage @ .4000. He flopped everywhere else he landed after leaving Tampa Bay. In short, pretty good for a Buc, not good at all elsewhere thereafter.

OK. Let's Mention Steve Young.

I didn't include Steve Young because he was Drafted in the Supplemental Draft in 1984 but didn't begin playing for the Bucs until 1985 where he only started 19 games over the 2 years he played there. He has the Lowest Win Total in Team History for Drafted Starters with only 3 Wins, the 3rd Worst QB Rating @ 63.1, and the Worst All-Time Winning Percentage @ .1579.

By using your logic and criteria to assess a Career beginning exclusively in Tampa Bay, Steve Young should be considered the biggest Bust of them all.

Also, it would be quite embarrassing to put up Comparative Stats for QBs Drafted and Developed by the Saints. Archie Who and Who Else?


Back on point to the original thread topic. Wilson may be a reclamation low risk high reward roll of the dice for Payton, but there's no way SP will begin the 2024 season with the QB room as it stands today. He'll have more moves than Jagger between now and then, imo.

 

[jahsoul357]

The following stats are based on a minimum of 25 starts for QBs Drafted by the Bucs. They have Drafted 24 QBs in their Team History.



I did say "Some Juice", "A Few", and "Moments". Not suggesting HOF worthy by any means.



I Missed on Josh Freeman.

He showed some Juice and had his Moments his first 4 years as a Buc and then was cut mid-way into his 5th season. He's tied for 4th in Wins with 24, 2nd Most TDs with 80, 2nd Most Yards Per Game @ 225.6, 2nd Best Int. Percentage @ 3.4%, 4th Highest All-Time Winning Percentage @ .4000. He flopped everywhere else he landed after leaving Tampa Bay. In short, pretty good for a Buc, not good at all elsewhere thereafter.

I was legit scared that Josh Freeman was going to be a monster for them long term. I hope he is in a better mental space now, as I know he was dealing with things in the league.
But nobody really looks at those QBs f

OK. Let's Mention Steve Young.

I didn't include Steve Young because he was Drafted in the Supplemental Draft in 1984 but didn't begin playing for the Bucs until 1985 where he only started 19 games over the 2 years he played there. He has the Lowest Win Total in Team History for Drafted Starters with only 3 Wins, the 3rd Worst QB Rating @ 63.1, and the Worst All-Time Winning Percentage @ .1579.

By using your logic and criteria to assess a Career beginning exclusively in Tampa Bay, Steve Young should be considered the biggest Busts of them all.

Steve Young would have easily been the biggest bust. And then he went to a 49ers team with one of the greatest coaches in the history of the NFL and showed the NFL that he was moreso a product of his environment. And that's my point; we are so quick to label quarterbacks (which are the most dependent position in the league) bust while totally ignoring the situations that they found themselves in or look at things from

Also, it would be quite embarrassing to put up comparative stats for QBs Drafted and developed by the Saints. Archie Who and Who Else?


Back on point to the original thread topic. Wilson may be a reclamation low risk high reward roll of the dice for Payton, but there's no way SP will begin the 2024 season with the QB room as it stands today. He'll have more moves than Jagger between now and then, imo.

Shoot, I made that point about us. I think I mentioned it in another post but we hang our hats on Archie and we ran him into the ground..lol. I think Wilson will do good with CSP because CSP puts you in a position to succeed because he actually implements things that you are good at. Everybody is like "he fixed Jameis," and I'm like, no he did. All he did was implemented more play-action and not have Jameis throw to receivers in small windows downfield like he had to do in Tampa. He simplified things for Russ last season (even though Russ was missing reads left and right). He will see what Wilson can do and go from there.

 

[jahsoul357]

Wilson is a lot younger and Payton already got to work with JW and knows how JW operates within his system. He didn't attempt to sign JW yet traded for Wilson, that says a lot.

Not really, as we don't know what all options he had and all we really heard were rumors but the deal was announced during the tampering window so . All things considered, he is on a team coached by the reigning coach of the year with a defense lead by the reigning assistant coach of the year, replacing the reigning comeback player of the year, on a squad that won 11 games sitting behind a player that might not be available the first game of the season playing in an offense that checks every "strengths" box. I would have tried to go somewhere to be a starter but he found himself in a great situation on the off chance that Watson gets himself hurt again.

 

[DSnfla]

Paytons trying to get fired after 2 seasons.

Don't be ridiculous, A 6and a 7 +2.75 mil. That's nothing. If he can get Winston to 5-2 with mediocre WR's then he can get something out of Wilson. and if he does he should get a contract extension. If not all he wasted was the 6&7. It's a very good move. Wilson has had crap QB coaches and OC's . SP is a QB whisperer

 

[DSnfla]

Not really, as we don't know what all options he had and all we really heard were rumors but the deal was announced during the tampering window so . All things considered, he is on a team coached by the reigning coach of the year with a defense lead by the reigning assistant coach of the year, replacing the reigning comeback player of the year, on a squad that won 11 games sitting behind a player that might not be available the first game of the season playing in an offense that checks every "strengths" box. I would have tried to go somewhere to be a starter but he found himself in a great situation on the off chance that Watson gets himself hurt again.

I think Wilson is a better fit than JW because of age and because He really did not have good QB coaching in NY and it's easier to break bad habits if you have not been doing them too long. Ole JW went through 100 QB coaches , OC's and HC's. That's a lot to unlearn

 

[DSnfla]

Wilson is never going to do anything of note in the NFL, It is so very rare for a QB to do horrible first few years then all of the sudden become serviceable let alone a quality starter.

Tell that to Geno Smith,Nick Foles ,Stabler, Bradshaw