I've watched 5 of Rattlers games, here's what I think. (1 Viewer)

[Nonreg]

This Rattler debate reminds me of the Ian Book drafting -- some people just want to believe what the circus publishes.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

That’s the thing I’ve been thinking about too. If Carr were to get injured next season, would I feel better about Rattler coming in than I would about Winston? I think I’d feel better about Rattler. At least there would be some excitement whereas with Jameis, for me it was more anxiety than excitement.

Well, I think there's more than one way to infuse excitement into a fan base that desperately needs it.

The new coach angle wasn't happening, and we definitely weren't planning any big FA splashes, so with the draft falling the way It did, getting a rookie QB is the next quickest way to get people excited about the team. It helps that Rattler has the pedigree that he does, there wasn't nearly as much excitement about Haener...and that's for good reason. Two different talents...

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

This Rattler debate reminds me of the Ian Book drafting -- some people just want to believe what the circus publishes.

How? Where was Ian book half the prospect Rattler is. Dude was the #1 QB in his class when he came out and was up for Heisman talk his rookie year along with other accolades that only come if you're a recognized talent.

The excitement is appropriately placed, but no one can deny it can definitely turn out Bookish. Thats very much possible, but for at least another year it'll be fun to wonder "what if"

Even with Haener being expected to be #2 no one was excited about our prospects if something happened to Carr. In fact prior to the draft, I noted there's no way possible all we're relying on is Carr and then Haener. If something happens to Carr and Haener is the guy we have to turn to, it would immediately seem like we were just seeing what we had on the team, because there's no way we'd be leaning on Haener to win us some games and keep us afloat. It was either Carr or bust.

It's no longer Carr or bust.

 

[St. Widge]

I think Haener has a ceiling of a backup; we would have been elated just to see him win the #2 spot. Rattlers floor is Haener's ceiling. We already see him competing for a backup spot as a rookie. It wasn't expected or alluded to for Haener in his rookie season.

In fact, even if Jameis were still on the team, I'd say Rattler would immediately be in the running for competing with Winston for the #2 Job as a rookie.

That's fair and I certainly trust your evaluations over my own. I honestly haven't seen Rattler play enough to understand his floor and I don't think I have the ability to really evaluate him because he played with such a bad team. I can see that he has a lot of talent and I love his ability to buy time and throw off schedule, but not much more than that given that his team is so disadvantaged against the teams they played.

 

[Deuuuuce]

This Rattler debate reminds me of the Ian Book drafting -- some people just want to believe what the circus publishes.

OP did his homework and drew conclusions from that. 1 month ago, believing what the circus publishes would be believing Rattler was overrated and a bad team mate. I don’t think anyone here is really going with a particular narrative. They’re just excited to see what the kid can bring.

What’s your take on him if you even have one?

 

[Que Que 6]

How? Where was Ian book half the prospect Rattler is. Dude was the #1 QB in his class when he came out and was up for Heisman talk his rookie year along with other accolades that only come if you're a recognized talent.

The excitement is appropriately placed, but no one can deny it can definitely turn out Bookish. Thats very much possible, but for at least another year it'll be fun to wonder "what if"

Even with Haener being expected to be #2 no one was excited about our prospects if something happened to Carr. In fact prior to the draft, I noted there's no way possible all we're relying on is Carr and then Haener. If something happens to Carr and Haener is the guy we have to turn to, it would immediately seem like we were just seeing what we had on the team, because there's no way we'd be leaning on Haener to win us some games and keep us afloat. It was either Carr or bust.

It's no longer Carr or bust.

U shouldn't even responded to that nonsense, LOL. Good job on your take!

 

[DavidM]

Rattlers floor is Haener's ceiling.

While I agree with a lot of what Ross Jackson has said about Rattler, he also made this same point and I don’t agree. It’s undetermined. Rattler has the better physical tools but that never gives a complete picture.

 

[fishing4food]

I think Rattler's play in college matched his pick in the draft. Of course we want to say he's a steal and he might be. Had Rattler been drafted by another team would we be laughing at them? He's a Saints now, so we hope Kubiak can develop him into a starter one day. I also believe Rattler has a better upside to him than Haener if Carr was to get hurt.
The key is for Kubiak to develop both backups in case they're called upon to start.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

While I agree with a lot of what Ross Jackson has said about Rattler, he also made this same point and I don’t agree. It’s undetermined. Rattler has the better physical tools but that never gives a compete picture.

Well I'm not sure what the problem is. Dennis Allen has confirmed Rattler will compete for backup this year. That's his floor right? Allen then confirmed that he has starter development potential. That's his ceiling right?

Show me where Allen said that Haener has starter potential after he was drafted. In fact I'll go search for it and get back with you on it. Don't think he's alluded to as much with Haener at any point.

That's not saying Haener doesn't, but anyone can tell you Rattler is a better prospect at QB than Haener was.

 

[Belfast Saint]

I think Rattler is a good scheme fit as well. He's done the under center, play action, boot action stuff quite a bit and will be better for it. When you think of Purdy, he's been so good because he does what the system requires and does it well. He's not someone who's physical talents leap off the page - just kinda solid. The mental side is more difficult to assess.

But I feel good about Rattler in the system we will have. I also think it would suit Haener tbh and I wouldn't say Haener's absolute ceiling is a backup, but on the balance of probabilities that's most likely where he ends up - but in the right situation, given the right opportunities, I could see him as a starter (assuming he develops yadda yadda yadda)

 

[DavidM]

Well I'm not sure what the problem is. Dennis Allen has confirmed Rattler will compete for backup this year. That's his floor right? Allen then confirmed that he has starter development potential. That's his ceiling right?

Show me where Allen said that Haener has starter potential after he was drafted. In fact I'll go search for it and get back with you on it. Don't think he's alluded to as much with Haener at any point.

That's not saying Haener doesn't, but anyone can tell you Rattler is a better prospect at QB than Haener was.

It’s opinions about opinions - fine, in that context - but we don’t know what the actual ceiling is for either player. Time and hard work will tell.

I like Haener but I do think Rattler has traits that make him a more exciting prospect. However, we know that doesn’t predict outcomes. There are people who thought Akili Smith and Jeff George were higher ceiling players than Brees and Brady.

 

[DavidM]

I think Rattler is a good scheme fit as well. He's done the under center, play action, boot action stuff quite a bit and will be better for it. When you think of Purdy, he's been so good because he does what the system requires and does it well. He's not someone who's physical talents leap off the page - just kinda solid. The mental side is more difficult to assess.

But I feel good about Rattler in the system we will have. I also think it would suit Haener tbh and I wouldn't say Haener's absolute ceiling is a backup, but on the balance of probabilities that's most likely where he ends up - but in the right situation, given the right opportunities, I could see him as a starter (assuming he develops yadda yadda yadda)

Yeah, I think this is a more reasoned take.

Ross Jackson made the point that Rattler is this offensive coaching staff’s pick so we know they have a vision for him. That isn’t to say they don’t like Haener, but it makes sense that Rattler comes in competing for a backup role as a rookie; Haener doesn’t hold a discernible advantage as only a second year guy who also is learning a new system. It’s unlike the situation with Winston, who had years of starter experience and time in Payton/Carmichael’s offense, and Haener was mostly trying to just earn a roster spot.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It’s opinions about opinions - fine, in that context - but we don’t know what the actual ceiling is for either player. Time and hard work will tell.

I like Haener but I do think Rattler has traits that make him a more exciting prospect. However, we know that doesn’t predict outcomes. There are people who thought Akili Smith and Jeff George were higher ceiling players than Brees and Brady.

Touche

I think Rattler is a good scheme fit as well. He's done the under center, play action, boot action stuff quite a bit and will be better for it. When you think of Purdy, he's been so good because he does what the system requires and does it well. He's not someone who's physical talents leap off the page - just kinda solid. The mental side is more difficult to assess.

But I feel good about Rattler in the system we will have. I also think it would suit Haener tbh and I wouldn't say Haener's absolute ceiling is a backup, but on the balance of probabilities that's most likely where he ends up - but in the right situation, given the right opportunities, I could see him as a starter (assuming he develops yadda yadda yadda)

I think both are excellent scheme fits, I think Rattler is a sturdier QB with better arm talent, but I do believe both make the QB room better than it was last year.

The competition will be gnarly to watch. Haener was no slouch last year in TC

 

[DavidM]

How? Where was Ian book half the prospect Rattler is.

Agree on this point. Book doesn’t belong in this conversation. His skill set limitations are glaring. It was baffling that Payton drafted him.

 

[Nonreg]

How? Where was Ian book half the prospect Rattler is. Dude was the #1 QB in his class when he came out and was up for Heisman talk his rookie year along with other accolades that only come if you're a recognized talent.

The excitement is appropriately placed, but no one can deny it can definitely turn out Bookish. Thats very much possible, but for at least another year it'll be fun to wonder "what if"

Even with Haener being expected to be #2 no one was excited about our prospects if something happened to Carr. In fact prior to the draft, I noted there's no way possible all we're relying on is Carr and then Haener. If something happens to Carr and Haener is the guy we have to turn to, it would immediately seem like we were just seeing what we had on the team, because there's no way we'd be leaning on Haener to win us some games and keep us afloat. It was either Carr or bust.

It's no longer Carr or bust.

It’s my opinion and guess what? This is a fan forum that allows that. I think the hype all of you are adding to this player is ridiculous.

Itll be fun to save this thread and revisit to see if your opinion / my opinion merits any truth